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Post by sciatrix on Oct 30, 2010 13:43:36 GMT -5
So is it just me, or is there this feeling that politeness and absolutely is almost mandatory when educating about asexuality in the broader community? I really see, especially on AVEN, this mentality that when we're educating or even when a nonasexual person ventures into any asexual space and has a question, we ought to drop everything and answer seriously and politely. Even if it's actually an offensive question.
It's very much not my style at all when educating--I'm simply not patient enough to be all that polite. So perhaps I notice it a lot, because I tend to get real pissed real fast and let my lesson be more "oh shit I can't say that here or people will eat me" rather than try to convert every clueless or actively harmful person out there, especially when someone starts by being insulting.
Not that being polite and accessible doesn't have its place, mind you, but I feel like there's an expectation that we ought to be always polite and never inaccessible. And, well, fuck that. Because if we're always accessible to any nonasexual who has a question, even obviously insulting ones, like "are you sure you're all healthy? maybe you should go see a doctor", then the implication is that we don't have enough backbone to demand a certain level of respect from the nonasexual community.
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Post by virescence on Oct 30, 2010 14:10:14 GMT -5
I'm very much a fan of treating people as they treat you (although I do find it hard sometimes not to be polite). If someone is being rude or insulting, then why should I not be rude or insulting back? Conversely if someone is clearly trying to be polite but is asking insulting questions out of simple ignorance ignorant, I usually try and at least be polite back to them, even if that politeness simply consists of explaining briefly and simply why they are in fact wrong and being incredibly insulting too.
(But then I'm British: aren't we supposed to be overly polite or something? XD)
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Post by you*hear*but*do*you*listen on Oct 30, 2010 15:35:26 GMT -5
I've definitely felt that pressure to be Little Miss Mary Sunshine all the time when doing visibility work...basically, I'm polite as long as the person I'm talking to deserves my politeness. When people say ignorant, condescending or bigoted things, I tend to get scary.
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Post by sciatrix on Oct 30, 2010 17:49:50 GMT -5
Right. And I mean, I'm not intending to say there ought to be more treating of people who are genuinely trying to be polite like idiots or anything like that. Just... meet courtesy with courtesy, and rudeness with rudeness. It's a general pressure I've seen to treat even rudeness or trolling with courtesy.
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Post by ocelotofdoom on Dec 11, 2010 1:27:24 GMT -5
While I generally think that politeness is a good approach, I also don't think that turning the other cheek to bullying or even outright rudeness is the solution to all things that some seem to think. Especially when the kind of "politeness" that I've seen expected of asexuals is everything up to and even including saying, "You're right, we're not really what we think we are! We're just sad, immature, hormonally deficient, mentally fubared late bloomers."
I think some people in the community may be working off the assumption that asexuals have to be accommodating and assimilationist because that's the way that some people in other marginalized groups have gone in order to be accepted or at least not as stigmatized. However, not only do I think that no group should have to bend over backwards for the majority in hopes of acceptance, but I think doing so accomplishes nothing for asexuals. There is no stereotype about asexuals that I know of that we are dangerous - the stereotype is that we don't exist, or are mistaken about ourselves. Being apologetic and unassertive when people spout off about how we're broken or deluded or whatever will accomplish nothing.
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Post by sciatrix on Dec 11, 2010 15:56:10 GMT -5
I am just going to flail in your general direction, ocelot, since you said it so much better than I did. Seriously.
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Post by michaelsmoker on Dec 11, 2010 20:26:46 GMT -5
If I worried about people "eating me" before I posted something on AVEN, I'd have to cut my hands off with a chainsaw. But I can't say any more about that because dissing AVEN appears to be against the TOS here.
On topic: I make a distinction between people who are rude out of malice and those who are rude out of ignorance. The former need to be restrained, while the latter need to be educated. No, intention does not determine everything, but intention is important to me personally. I don't like arguments and confrontations and hostility and would like to get along with everyone I can possibly get along with. That means being tolerant if uninformed people overstep bounds that, were they informed, they would not overstep. As ocelot points out, our major issue is ignorance rather than informed and deliberate bigotry. Many of those who think we are "late bloomers" and the such are not Ku Klux Klan members in disguise but simply people who don't know any better. For myself, I choose not to lose my temper with well-meaning but uninformed people even if they say something that offends me. But that's my choice. Others are free to choose differently, and I _refuse_ to get into quarrels with anyone on this forum about which approach is "right for everyone."
Michael
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Post by you*hear*but*do*you*listen on Dec 11, 2010 22:15:11 GMT -5
If I worried about people "eating me" before I posted something on AVEN, I'd have to cut my hands off with a chainsaw. But I can't say any more about that because dissing AVEN appears to be against the TOS here. Michael Insulting specific users on this board is very much against the TOS and will result in banhammering, as will accusations that a particular user does not belong in the greater asexual community. But I wrote the TOS (with OcelotOfDoom's help) and I don't recall writing a rule that prohibited dissing a certain Web site that spawned the creation of this site, which is specifically for refugees of said certain Web site... -walks away whistling-
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Post by you*hear*but*do*you*listen on Dec 11, 2010 22:19:39 GMT -5
While I generally think that politeness is a good approach, I also don't think that turning the other cheek to bullying or even outright rudeness is the solution to all things that some seem to think. Especially when the kind of "politeness" that I've seen expected of asexuals is everything up to and even including saying, "You're right, we're not really what we think we are! We're just sad, immature, hormonally deficient, mentally fubared late bloomers." I think some people in the community may be working off the assumption that asexuals have to be accommodating and assimilationist because that's the way that some people in other marginalized groups have gone in order to be accepted or at least not as stigmatized. However, not only do I think that no group should have to bend over backwards for the majority in hopes of acceptance, but I think doing so accomplishes nothing for asexuals. There is no stereotype about asexuals that I know of that we are dangerous - the stereotype is that we don't exist, or are mistaken about ourselves. Being apologetic and unassertive when people spout off about how we're broken or deluded or whatever will accomplish nothing. -applause- Much agreed, OcelotOfDoom. I feel like the ideal attitude to have when talking about asexuality is a default calm, non-inflammatory one, and when people respond with stupid things out of pure ignorance as opposed to malice, we should correct them gently but firmly. Controlled anger (I'm still working on the "controlled" part meself...heheh...) should be the response to malicious or bigoted statements. In no way should "politeness" extend to being so spineless we end up agreeing with people who deliberately insist that there is no such thing as asexuality and/or asexuals are all broken.
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Post by demacrux on Feb 20, 2011 19:43:29 GMT -5
My think I'm genuinely going to be civil if not always cordial unless I get the feeling that someone's nor listening or is disrespecting me, at that point I have no qualms about being a little -grrr- to them. I really have no words grrr is the best way I can put it.(maybe coarse, aggressive? idk)
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