The right to privacy

[Fin]

I had this conversation with a friend just now over MSN. Just wondering what others think of this subject.


Finbarr says (09:48)
An old acquiantace of mine also has AVEN on his likes on Facebook
And I really want to ask if he's asexual XD
My friend says (09:48)
so ask
Finbarr says (09:49)
Haven't spoken to him in a couple years. I'm not close enough to him that I can really do that XD
My friend says (09:50)
why do you have to be close?
just say hey, i saw you were a fan of AVEN... i was wondering...
it's not offensive to ask questions based on what someone put on facebook
and if they take it offensively then they should realise that they invited the question XD
Finbarr says (09:51)
I disagree
My friend says (09:51)
why?
Finbarr says (09:52)
Because his sexual orientation isn't really my business, and he didn't present that piece of information
My friend says (09:52)
but he presented a piece of information that could reasonably lead to that question
and it's not inappropriate to ask
if he doesn't want to tell you, all he has to do is refuse
Finbarr says (09:52)
I think it is
My friend says (09:53)
i don't see it that way at all
My friend says (09:54)
teh way i see it, if something's really personal and i don't want my facebook friends to know it, then i won't mention it. there are times when i worry that i've said too much, but if someone asks, it was my fault for putting it there for them to see XD
Finbarr says (09:54)
But he didn't really put it there for people to see, so much as he clicked like on a page he presumably supports
My friend says (09:55)
yeah, but when you click like, why are you clicking it? presumably, so that your friends can see what things you like/support
it goes on your profile for them to view
Finbarr says (09:55)
Or so you can add your support to the page, so that the people THERE can see the support
My friend says (09:56)
now, i don't necessarily like that facebook posts everything we do to our walls, but i am aware that they do it, and i act accordingly
you're another supporter on that page anyway, though, right?
Finbarr says (09:56)
Yeah
My friend says (09:56)
so even if he didn't intend it to be on his profile, and it IS what you said
Finbarr says (09:56)
Okay, let me put it this way
My friend says (09:56)
then you still fall under that category
Finbarr says (09:56)
One of my friends is a close friend of his
And he didn't know about asexuality until I came out
Finbarr says (09:57)
So if this guy is ace, he probably isn't out
My friend says (09:57)
asking him =! outing him
facebook has PMs
Finbarr says (09:58)
No, but if he doesn't want to be out he probably doesn't want people who don't know him that well asking him his sexual orientation
My friend says (09:58)
well
we're just going to ahve to disagree XD
Finbarr says (09:58)
>.> I kind of think your looking at this from a place of privilege
*you're
My friend says (09:59)
i'm just being rational
i'm an atheist and there are people on there that i don't want knowing that
Finbarr says (09:59)
I'm trying to be respectful of his privacy
My friend says (09:59)
i'm closeted about something too
therefore
i don't go on facebook and "like" atheist pages
if i did, i would be inviting questions
and that's just how i see it
My friend says (10:00)
if someone asks me a question about my beliefs because i click "like" on Richard Dawkins something-or-other
then i accept that i invited them to do so
Finbarr says (10:00)
I'm sure he'd understand why I'm asking the question
But it still might make him uncomfortable
My friend says (10:01)
i don't see what this has to do with privilege when i have the same opinion about a very similar position that i'm in
Finbarr says (10:01)
If he's ace, I'm giving him the choice to lie, or to tell someone he may not have wanted to know
My friend says (10:02)
if this discussion were about a friend who clicked on the richard dawkins foundation for science and reason, and i were arguing that you're within your rights to ask that person if he's an atheist
My friend says (10:03)
would you still be telling me i'm arguing from a position of privilege?
Finbarr says (10:03)
Atheism != asexuality
My friend says (10:03)
it's still something that's vilified and misunderstood, and very similar
Finbarr says (10:03)
It's a similar situation, but they aren't similar things
Okay, maybe similar, but not the same
My friend says (10:04)
but the same reasoning about facebook still applies
if it's that private of a thing, then it's a good idea to leave it off facebook
putting anything on facebook that you're closeted about is telling people it's okay to ask
Finbarr says (10:04)
Would the same logic apply if the same situation happened with a transgendered person?
My friend says (10:04)
explain
My friend says (10:05)
you mean if a transgendered person liked a fan page for that?
Finbarr says (10:05)
Yeah
My friend says (10:05)
i would say that it does
Finbarr says (10:05)
Really?
My friend says (10:05)
yes
if it's a secret
don't put it on facebook
or
make a second account to participate in those communities with
and don't friend people that you don't want involved
Finbarr says (10:05)
So the fact that being out as trans is potentially dangerous shouldn't factor into it?
Finbarr says (10:06)
I'm not saying being ace is anything like that, just saying there are other factors
My friend says (10:06)
i don't like that facebook is set up that way, and i argue against it every time they make another change, but i know that it's not going to change so i handle myself accordingly
there are other communities where it's safe to discuss those issues
My friend says (10:07)
just like i keep my atheism discussions elsewhere
Finbarr says (10:08)
You're putting the responsibility solely on the person who likes the page. If I see something that leads to speculate about somebody's private life, I have no right to invade their privacy by confronting them about it
My friend says (10:08)
i hate that facebook isn't safe for private discussions and i fight against it as much as i can, but if something's really that personal i just don't put it out there
My friend says (10:09)
well i feel like the responsibility IS on the person who likes the page. I feel that way about pages that i like too. facebook is a social network, for interacting with y our friends... it's there for people you know to learn about you
if there's something you don't want them to learn about
then it shouldn't be on facebook *shrug*
sorry, that's just how i feel about it
it applies equally to me, too
Finbarr says (10:09)
He didn't declare himself as asexual, he liked a page related to asexuality
My friend says (10:09)
i didn't say he did
Finbarr says (10:10)
I just think it's an important difference
My friend says (10:10)
but if i liked a page related to atheism
it would not be unreasonable for my friends to ask me my feelings about atheism
or even if i am an atheist
it's the same principle
Finbarr says (10:10)
Look
My friend says (10:10)
look nothing. i tried to end the discussion a while ago
My friend says (10:11)
i already said we're just going to have to disagree. i tried to leave it at that
Finbarr says (10:11)
Okay


One thing I disagree with in my own stated position is the assumption that being close to someone gives me the right to ask personal questions. Not quite sure why I suggested anything like that, but I kind of got swept up in the core argument before it occurred to me to correct that.

Anyway, thoughts? Does she have a point?

[siggy]

The closet is not a binary. There is a gray area between everyone knowing and no one knowing.

The thing about being out on Facebook is that you are putting yourself on the boundaries of out and not out. I link to my blog on Facebook. But who looks at every one of their friends' websites? If every week, I got responses asking about asexuality or atheism, I would get annoyed and remove the information from Facebook. But as it is, it hardly ever happens. In fact, I appreciate the rare instances when people respond.

So yes, people can get annoyed if people are always asking them about stuff seen on their profile. But I think it is unlikely that they'll be annoyed at just one response. They did put it out there after all! They might even be hoping for a response.

Furthermore, it's not even like your response would be negative. You won't tell them to check their hormones or to give sex a chance, so you're good.

[Fin]

Thanks for the input. You're absolutely right. I was being way too extreme.

(And looking back over what I said, that analogy to the potential dangers of being out as trans leaves a pretty bad taste in my mouth. Really not an even comparison at all.)