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Post by goldfish on Nov 9, 2010 19:11:06 GMT -5
I would like to start by saying that I love snails.
I do. I Love land snails and aquatic ones, predators and herbivores. I love little ramshorns and huge conch. I love their colors, their patterns, their shapes, the way they move, the little trails they leave, the way they explore their environments with their tiny delicate antennae that might serve as eyestalks or might hold other sensory organs, the marvellous designs of their radula, even the way it feels when one crawls across my hand.
This does not mean I expect everyone to like snails. Some people think snails are slimy and creepy. They might be freaked out, or at least grossed out, if they had to handle snails the way I like to. They want to stay far away from anything vaguely gastropod-like. I can respect that.
Some people don't hate snails, but don't love them the way I do either. They would be bored to tears listening to me go on and on and on about the feeding and mating habits of Melampus coffeus or Nerita versicolor, and they do not want to go out collecting or observing with me. They may even think I am kind of weird for being so enthusiastic about small shelled invertebrates. When I hang out with such people, I don't ramble on about snails. I talk about good books, or art class, or whatever else we're both interested in. I can respect the fact that they are just not into snails.
What I can't respect is someone insisting that there is something fundamentally wrong with me for liking snails and insisting that every last one on the planet should be salted and dried.
That's the difference between being an indifferent or repulsed asexual and being an antisexual. If you don't care about sex (like me), that is your right and your business. If it squicks you out, that is also your right and your business. The problem with antisexuals is that they're not content to live the way they want to live and ask people respect that. They make drastic and quite frankly ridiculous demands on the entire rest of the world and look down on everyone who doesn't follow their rules. Add to that a healthy dose of misogyny (seriously, check the blogs) and advice for changing your sexual orientation, and you've got a recipe not that different from the average queerphobic Fundie.
While criticizing antisexuals is a worthy and noble cause, that is not my main goal here. My main goal is to make it clear that there IS A DIFFERENCE, much as many antisexuals and anti-antisexuals alike deny it. Much of the friction I've seen people run into as repulsed aces seems to stem from the idea that repulsed aces are also, automatically, antisexual. I can't speak as a repulsed ace, so I hesitate to put words in others' mouths, but as far as I can tell they're not that different from my friends who can't stand snails. Thinking snails are gross and slimy and not understanding how on Earth I can let them TOUCH me ewwwww is an entirely different sort of thing from being on some mad Quixotic quest to destroy all molluscs and their despicable slimy human allies.
I can understand wanting and needing to distance our community from one that is unhealthy, dangerous, and bent on co-opting us. However, when doing so, we must be very careful not to draw the line in the wrong place. Doing that alienates our allies and gives our enemies legitimacy they don't deserve.
So. Now that I've said my piece, does anyone else have any thoughts?
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Post by ocelotofdoom on Nov 10, 2010 0:28:55 GMT -5
THANK YOU. I really wish some people grasped this. I've seen a number of people go "Well, I KNOW there's a difference between repulsion and antisexuality, buuuuuutttt.... (insert something about how repulsed asexuals might as well be raving antisexuals, and are immature to boot)."
What I think a number of people, including both sexuals and indifferent asexuals, don't get about this is that repulsion doesn't have to even involve any level of hatred for the act of sex, let alone the people. The vehemence of some repulsed asexuals - at least, as far as I can tell - is the result of hype backlash. And really, there's nothing that's more hyped in society than sex and related concepts and activities. I'd say that being a repulsed asexual is like being someone who thinks that chocolate has the most disgusting taste in the world, but even that doesn't quite capture the amount of media, social, commercial and other focus given to sex. The extent to which it's taken for granted that everyone is sexual and wants to see, do and feel certain things is alienating, and sometimes intrusive when people try to impose it on one, which I imagine accounts for a lot of the stronger reactions by repulsed people. Like a lot of things, or so I've noticed, sex has such a vocal (albeit small) hatedom because it has such a large fandom, so to speak.
And don't even get me started on the segment of the community that wants to throw us repulsed people under the bus by saying we're mentally ill or traumatized or whatever... Those people piss me off immensely.
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Post by sciatrix on Nov 10, 2010 8:56:42 GMT -5
Yes. This, and all of this. (And really, why is personal repulsion regarding an activity that someone already has no desire for such a bad thing?)
I would say I don't understand why people assume repulsion and antisexuality are the same thing, but I'm not sure I don't. It seems to me as if such people are already looking for a way to explain repulsedness away, since it makes asexuality "look bad," and conflating it with antisexuality is such an easy way to do that without being seen to obviously lay into half your membership for no reason.
And of course, I have seen a lot of people newly identified as asexual come into the asexual community and start going through what I think of as a "detoxing" phase, especially if they're repulsed. That is, they're so relieved to have found out that this isn't some kind of personal aberration, that they're not alone and insane, that they spend a lot of time going on about how terrible sex is and how glad they are that they don't have to do it and how fantastic not being expected to like sex is. That sort of thing. It looks a lot like antisexuality if you're not familiar with the phenomenon, even though it's really not--it's just detoxing from the pressure and expectation to want sex. And as far as I can tell, the vehemence that I see people go through this with is correlated rather strongly to the pressure they've experienced to be sexual in the past, whether or not that's what they want. These days they tend to get told rather sharply not to be antisexual, which I think isn't actually all that helpful for helping people through that detoxing stage, and furthermore seems likely to shove them towards actual antisexuality, if they're not finding the acceptance they seek in the asexual community.
I've said occasionally that repulsedness is a personal trait, while antisexuality is an ideology. Attacking people on basis of personal traits is generally Not A Good Thing. Attacking ideologies, particularly ideologies that hurt people, is something else again. (Which is to say: again, I agree with everything in the OP.)
I do wonder sometimes that Sexual Aversion Disorder, which affects our repulsed members just as unpleasantly as HSDD affects asexuals in general, has never as far as I know been a topic in the asexual community. It's a bit of a moot point now--I think it's getting phased out with the new DSM changes, which are still problematic as hell as far as I can see--but I still find that interesting.
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Post by goldfish on Nov 10, 2010 13:07:43 GMT -5
Eep. Serious mistake in the title there. Fixed now.
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Post by murray on Nov 11, 2010 0:10:12 GMT -5
I was wondering about that, but I was pretty sure i knew what you meant.
I can see that this is definitely an important distinction to make, although my experience with the controversy is limited.
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Post by you*hear*but*do*you*listen on Nov 24, 2010 22:13:31 GMT -5
What a wonderful metaphor ^_^ I am also quite fond of snails. I may have to use this explanation.
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